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What causes this herringbone / woodgrain effect

Discussion in 'Using Alibre Design' started by dsage, Feb 3, 2020.

  1. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    What I figured.

    Still, "powerful"and "bug-free" are not the same thing.
     
    anson likes this.
  2. oldfox

    oldfox Alibre Super User

    NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS with 1GB RAM -- $38.87 from Amazon, 16 October 2017. Brand New

    upload_2020-2-10_13-22-18.png

    Just downloaded the file from dsage and opened it. Set the properties as you see them. Saving and opening again returns the same
    results.
     
  3. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    Here it is with the Dell G3-15, 16Mb, 6 core,NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1660 Ti with 6gB, 0.5 Tb NVMe.

    Ambient occlusion on, HOOPS, setting as seen. We have stripes, and we have "many" edges (not all) showing, it is actually SET for shaded with visible edges. Nothing gets rid of the edges, except setting to shaded only. The machine is well good enough to handle the program. The graphics should be easily able to deal with it as well.

    Tiger stripes 2019.jpg

    With occlusion off

    tiger stripes no occlusion 2019.png

    SAme with model shadow on

    tiger stripes model shadow no occlusion 2019.png
     
  4. oldfox

    oldfox Alibre Super User

    My 'facet' resolution was set at "Fine" How about yours?
     
  5. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    I had it set more coarse, however, it made no particular difference.
    However, if set to fine, vs set to coarse, it seemed to make certain things different, not worse, not better. It changed the "jaggies" seen , it just changed the shape somewhat, it did not change position nor how many were present. The second "jaggie" on the side of the block on RH side of the part is slightly different in shape, as are the ones to the right of it.

    Here is coarse

    tiger stripes occl off set coarse.png

    Here is fine

    tiger stripes occl off set to fine.png
     
  6. oldfox

    oldfox Alibre Super User

    Then there is definitely a big difference in the 2 video boards. What that difference is, I haven't a clue.
    I'm running Win10 but I don't think that would make a difference.
     
  7. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    Maybe with settings on the board? There is a dashboard with some stuff on it, but I have not messed with it other than a look at it a while back.

    Apparently not... I changed several settings that looked like they might improve it. No dice
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  8. bigseb

    bigseb Alibre Super User

    I have never seen anything like this before in AD. Never. That it happens now with an imported file means I'm am not about to go blaming my GPU. Possibly its a buggy file?
     
  9. oldfox

    oldfox Alibre Super User

    Looking back at the original post, I am reminded of 'running rabbits', a phenomenon on the display of a radar repeater that produces a
    repeating pattern of dots (most common, hence the name) across the screen. So what happens if this same effect is being caused by
    the GPU/HOOPS on the OP's computer working on more than one thing at once. Ergo, the beat note. And AD is saving it into the file?
    (Just my troubleshooters brain going off into the open)o_O
     
  10. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    It is definitely a beat note issue, as I see it. It moves around as the view is turned in the manner that one would expect.

    And, I think it may be related to the transparency problem. If two surfaces are visible because one is partly transparent, and they each have a gray scale value, it is quite possible that the two patterns might create a moire result, depending on just how the gray scale is made.
     
  11. Hunter

    Hunter Member

    I can confirm the same behaviour on my machine
    upload_2020-2-12_6-27-24.png
     
  12. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    Interestingly, Hunter, in another thread, mentioned in response to my question that even though he is running the exact same NVIDIA 1660 that I am, he does NOT see the stripes etc.

    As for the queston from BigSeb..... That did not fix the problem. In fact it seems it hardly did anything. Here is is after doing all that. hoops parts set max.png
     
  13. Hunter

    Hunter Member

    Yes, up to that point in time I've never seen it, that is true. I've only come across it with this specific 3D model. Are you saying that you also see it with other models?
     
  14. idslk

    idslk Alibre Super User

    I opened the model again...
    upload_2020-2-13_13-29-52.png
    ...expected result and than i used the isometric view button:
    upload_2020-2-13_13-30-49.png

    and got an unecpected result:
    upload_2020-2-13_13-31-52.png

    and this stayed...changing view, saved, reopened, used shadows, reflection...
    upload_2020-2-13_13-35-51.png

    saved it in a drawer named "mystic" ;-)

    Regards
    Stefan
     
  15. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    Yes, the largeish model I sent in to Max and Co showed the stripes, the jaggies, and a very extreme case of transparency, where most items seemed fully transparent except for the edges. Same stuff as here. And, just like this one, all the parts seemed to be OK in isolation.

    I might add that at one point, the rectangular block on top, I think it is maybe exhaust connection, became transparent on the model we are discussing here, just showing edges. Oddly, ONLY that part appeared to be fully transparent, the others were solid.
     
  16. Thompson

    Thompson Member

    I just tried a little experiment on my old Dell Latitude laptop with nVidia graphics.
    I opened the model and got the tiger stripes / excess visible edges display.
    I then inserted a small part from the model (it didn't matter which) and placed it near the model.
    close.jpg
    Nothing changed until I dragged the part a few inches away... then suddenly:
    far.jpg
    When I dragged it back and forth near the model, the stripes came back and went away. Repeatable after closing and opening the model several times and looking at it from various angles.
     
  17. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    CONFIRMED! The transparency issues the jaggies and the stripes are all three gone when the added part is pulled a little farther away.

    It even worked on the shop layout I posted a while back, the "very wonky" one. But the new part had to be LONG way out.

    EDIT: Looking closer, the extra part DID NOT FIX EVERYTHING. Parts that are about a half inch thick or less are still regarded as transparent, you see too many edges, and zooming does not change that, as it does with the old traditional problem that is seen when zooming out. See later post #60.

    stripes w part farther.png stripes w part nearby.png

    Stripes etc on shop layout with part pulled way out.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 8:58 AM
  18. idslk

    idslk Alibre Super User

    like in POST#27...:D:D:D
     
  19. idslk

    idslk Alibre Super User

    btw. inserting an new part and hiding it seems to do the same job...so it seems to be some kind of mathematics inside (see post from max) and not directly from visibility...(and so maybe no problem of your graficcards...)
    upload_2020-2-14_9-27-39.png
     
  20. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    That was changing the actual assembly.

    What Thompson did was put a NEW part out to the side, the assembly itself had no changes.

    Interestingly, with the large assembly I had the original problem with, the extra part DID NOT FIX EVERYTHING. There are STILL extra edges showing on parts which had thicknesses small with respect to the model size, like 1/2" when the model is about 35 ft long. It does not change when zooming in.

    I regard that as a definite problem, but at least the jaggies and large transparent parts are not present.

    Extra edges still showing.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 8:55 AM

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