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Quick feedback needed

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Max, Apr 28, 2020.

?

Should we do this for the constraint dialog

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    29.2%
  2. No

    17 vote(s)
    70.8%
  1. Max

    Max Administrator Staff Member

    Hi all, we are about to ship SP1 for v21.

    Question - many have raised the desired behaviors:
    1) let me clear a selection in the constraint dialog if I click in blank space and
    2) I want a mouse-centric way to commit constraints fast

    The proposal:
    When you left click blank space and the constraint dialog is open:
    • If there is 1 selection, the selection is cleared. This lets you quickly mitigate misclicks for the first selection.
    • If there are 2 selections in the input box, commit the constraint. This lets you rapidly commit constraints without touching the dialog at all.

    Pros:
    • If you know how it works, it's very efficient.
    • No need to touch the dialog or the keyboard for most constraints - just move the mouse to blank space to commit.

    Cons:
    • The same action results in 2 different outcomes depending on how many selections you have. This may be confusing.
    • It may not be discoverable, and cause confusion.
    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  2. simonb65

    simonb65 Alibre Super User

    I've cast my vote (no), I would rather like to see the apply, undo and reverse buttons were just moved to the bottom of the dialog to improve dialog workflow. I know it's slightly off topic, but is still related to the new dialog.

    Can the behaviour you propose be an user configurable option? So we can either use it or not ... and maybe get the chance to decide if it works for our own usage style?
     
    jfleming and Uman like this.
  3. Max

    Max Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, but not in time for the SP.
     
    simonb65 likes this.
  4. Hunter

    Hunter Member

    Yes for me, I've used other CAD software that works in a similar way, very efficient if you get used to it.
     
  5. Hunter

    Hunter Member

    Perhaps just make that specific point clear in the poll question. Users might think other options may never be a future consideration.
     
  6. Engr62

    Engr62 New Member

    I would prefer this:
    • If there is 1 selection, the selection is cleared. This lets you quickly mitigate misclicks for the first selection.
    • If there is 2 selection, left clicking in empty space will clear the 2nd selection, but right clicking in empty space will give a drop list with "apply" in it. If you left click once with 2 selection, a 2nd left click will also clear the 1st selection.
     
    NateLiqGrav likes this.
  7. Max

    Max Administrator Staff Member

    OK, I was hoping for an overwhelming response in one direction or the other, but I suspected there may be some finer points you guys would value more than the speed of implementing the proposal above. As such, we will can this for v21 and consider some alternative approaches for v22.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Hunter

    Hunter Member

    Nah, we just like to whine
     
    anson likes this.
  9. NateLiqGrav

    NateLiqGrav Alibre Super User

    I dislike the idea of a left click in a blank area applying the constraint. It seems way to easy to accidentally create the constraint and new users wouldn't be able to easily identify how or what they did.

    I like this idea for clicking a blank area to backing out of the selection one at a time.

    I think "Apply Constraint" being in the right click menu certainly makes the context menu more context aware. Could be expanded to include "Cancel Constraint" as well.

    Just don't lose things in the right click menu that are beneficial when constraining - like showing reference geometry, duplicating an object, advanced selection...
     
  10. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    For what it is worth, I vote NO also.

    In SOME cases "context-sensitive variations" are OK.

    In this case, they are way too different. "Cancel input" vs "accept and execute" are too different.

    Besides, clicking in space clears measurement limits, and IIRC some other things. I would strongly urge NOT mixing up things like that.... The "cancel input" is at least consistent with other things. "Accept and execute" is just plain not a good idea, because the rest of the program has used the action for a different purpose.

    The "quick accept" I understand, I just do not want it that way.

    Frankly, I want that checkbox or other "accept" box, down at the bottom of the regular constraint window, in the standard Windows location for those things.

    Now, if there is a clamour for the feature, then have a floating Accept/cancel/undo box that shows up onscreen near the last click that caused the constraint to snap into position (second face/edge/etc selection). That would hopefully be conveniently nearby. But make it selectable so we do not have to have it.

    Taking that idea further, I don't care if you make the "click in space" commit the constraint, as long as we can turn that particular function of such a click OFF (but keep the standard old function).

    EDIT
    Seeing the last post, yes, the right button click is OK to get that list of actions. It adds a click, but you still do not have to mouse to the other end of the continent to do what you need. Accept/reverse/undo should be in the drop down.
     
  11. HaroldL

    HaroldL Alibre Super User

    IF you put anything in the RMB menu can it be placed at the top so it is readily available in the context of applying constraints? As it is now the RMB menu has quite a few item that are available and can be selected/activated while the constraint dialog is open.

    RMB Menu.png

    IF some options, like Activate 2D Sketch, could be unselectable while constraining that may lessen the chance of selecting it. OR maybe Activate 2D Sketch gets replaced by Apply Constraint while the constraint dialog is open then reverts back to its previous state.

    One thing I've gotten quit used to when I was working with SolidWorks is the RMB click to accept an operation. It even showed a little Return Key icon by the mouse pointer to remind you. What about using the MMB as the accept key, is it available for reprogamming?
     
  12. cadtec

    cadtec Member

    Leave the dialog and the behavior as it is and only change the RMB menu to a minimum.
    As long as the constraint dialog is open and the RMB is pressed, a minimal menu should be displayed: Reverse, OK, Undo, Cancel.
    More is not necessary in this menu as long as the constraint dialog is open.
    (It would be OK if clicking into the empty area always deletes only the lowest element in the list.)
     
  13. Ydl

    Ydl Member

    I don't like the idea of clicking white space as a trigger. I feel like this could be something that might either be triggered by a misclick, or be difficult to execute given a certain view of the model.

    I'd prefer shift-click, lmb/rmb options that are more deliberate and independent of the view of the model.

    I also think the two negatives that you've listed Max, are pretty big no-nos for building a nice clean ui.

    Big props for realising that mouse travel to the constraints box is slow and cumbersome. Likely to upgrade in the next few days so I look forward to this change coming through.
     
    JST likes this.
  14. NateLiqGrav

    NateLiqGrav Alibre Super User

    Me too! Especially confusing is that now an Ok button shows up there if editing a constraint. Should an Apply button when creating and the Ok button when editing.
     
  15. NateLiqGrav

    NateLiqGrav Alibre Super User

    I think many of these things are not needed when right clicking when doing constraints.
     

    Attached Files:

    jfnewman likes this.
  16. beastro

    beastro Senior Member

    YES, for me
     
  17. Notermans

    Notermans Member

    No for me

    It works great as it is
     
  18. TimoCAD

    TimoCAD Senior Member

    Hey Max, what does option 2 mean? If It means that I can 'tab' the entries of a dialog and the ok Button with the middle mouse Button like in siemens nx... YES I WOULD HAVE IT SPEEDS UP MY DESIGN PROCESS! :cool:
     
  19. Lew_Merrick

    Lew_Merrick Alibre Super User

    Hey Timo -- I have been "asking for" a simple mouse button way of dealing with Constraints (as I hate chasing about to accept, reject, or reverse a Constraint). I believe that it should be a "user choice" setting, but my "default" would be: RMB for accept, LMB for reject, and MMB for reverse -- but that is just me. -- Lew
     
  20. TimoCAD

    TimoCAD Senior Member

    Hi Lew, yes, I've seen that post.

    Yes I understand your point of view. I mentioned MMB for that, cause I use and am used to Siemens NX in my mainjob as employee - thats also just me. ;)
     

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