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Hole feature & sketching - Issue - Bug?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sturmer, May 7, 2020.

  1. Sturmer

    Sturmer Senior Member

    Hi,
    after a long while i am finding some iritating issues. When you use hole feature, you cant use the reference geometry to sketch the position of the hole. The work around is to make the hole in approximate place , and then finish the feature, and after that edit the created sketch. Then go on to defining the requried dimensions and positional information.
    This is not a disabling problem but when you have 30+holes it gets really old ... and iritating.
     
  2. Ralf

    Ralf Alibre Super User

    Hi Sturmer,

    Hole Tool
    - Insert Hole Sketch(es) -> Dimension(s): Position the center of the Hole sketch with dimensions and /or 2D Sketch constraints.
    - Click OK
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  3. Sturmer

    Sturmer Senior Member

  4. Ralf

    Ralf Alibre Super User

    The feature description is displayed in the tooltip, please take a look:

    Insert-Hole.png

    If you think it is not optimal, create a ticket with a functional improvement/feature request.
     
    TimoCAD likes this.
  5. Nick952

    Nick952 Senior Member

    I put a Feature request / suggestion in a while ago, asking if the Hole Tool could be enhanced to allow the use of existing sketches, for the hole placement, but nothing yet.

    After all in the real world, the hole position is marked out and the hole is then drilled. Whereas CAD, seems to think that the hole should be "drilled" first and then moved into position!
     
  6. simonb65

    simonb65 Alibre Super User

    Would be nice if you could just place a circle sketch, constrain it, then convert it to a 'defined drill/threaded hole'. That would fit the rest of the editing workflow used in feature creation.
     
    Uman and JST like this.
  7. albie0803

    albie0803 Alibre Super User

    We need ALL of the sketch tools available in the hole tool, particularly reference lines.
    Need a hole at a 30° angle to an axis? Roughly position the hole, create/exit the hole tool, edit the sketch, draw a reference line, dimension the angle.
    That should ALL be able to be done BEFORE exiting the hole tool. Everything relating to the hole should be done before finishing the hole.
     
    JST likes this.
  8. Sturmer

    Sturmer Senior Member

    This is why i don't use the frigging hole feature , but rather use the book on the table and insert the size of the hole by dimension the sketch circle and doing the cut extrude. Doing that i limit my self in the feature tree - but in the long run im faster. As most of Alibre is EXTREMELY powerful and i love the software for what it can do - and in this new version it can do a lot. It's biggest limiting factor is that often you have to find workarounds for a simple or specific task.
    I remember few years back there was a talk about arc dimension , the same - it can be done but not in in intrinsic and simple way - there is work around that i often use (really lovely feature of alibre is that it uses the equations , and now additional properties :) ) but its not engineering intuitive and fluid.
    But as i heard the English saying with alibre you must know; "That there is a more than one way to skin a cat."

    Sorry about the rant , but in the end - short answer is:

    Alibre design, has a specific way of looking at hole features - and its a design intent its a feature - not a bug.
    There is a simple work around , that we all use when we have to - put a hole in approximate place , then re edit the sketch and then use the whole power of the alibre dimension tools,and features.


    Its a design flow issue more then a problem...but when you have 325 of which about 200 are not the same size holes in different places not in any symetry ... this design flow becomes a little bit "Old" ... and irritating.
     
  9. Ralf

    Ralf Alibre Super User

    If you think it is not optimal, create a ticket with a functional improvement/feature request.
    Have you done it already?;)
     
    TimoCAD likes this.
  10. Sturmer

    Sturmer Senior Member

    Done , the request sent to the support... Hope if enough of us request this change ... it will get in to some of the new updates.

    As this is the classical , theory vs practice issue. In practice this is a lousy nuisance that every shop engineer , that has 30 things on his mind that need to be done in 3 minutes hates. Every one in this situation hates the fact it has to make loopy loops for something straight forward. And then shockingly you see the error made (the hole is 99% exact on place ... but this 1% in machining a 100$ part is ... well important) in the part...and yeah it's not the software fault i was sloppy and did not re check all the holes for annotations and dimensions ... it's mine mistake. But i think that this should be simple task for alibre engineers to solve and help us and make our lives easier... ( i can only assume maybe it's a hard or complex fix)

    Same goes for the arc dimension , as if you want to construct gears by your self the arc feature would solve some scratching your head and remembering that that one dimension is only one simple calculation away ...
     
  11. albie0803

    albie0803 Alibre Super User

    A bit off topic but gears are not arcs, they are involute curves and can only be constructed using splines. If you want them correct that is.
     
  12. Lew_Merrick

    Lew_Merrick Alibre Super User

    Hi Albie -- Only supporting my argument that we need to extend things to include (at a minimum) involute, and 5-point-conic curve entities (I shant bore you with my entire "curve entity wish list.") -- Lew
     
  13. Sturmer

    Sturmer Senior Member

    Off course they are involute , but when doing math , it's easier to use arc dimension then to calculate first the arc dimension of the "arc part" of the circle then add the second dimension then third. I am doing this old-school way ( like it was made by pen and ink). I am doing this the same way i found it done in old-school 70ties book ( look at the picture below) but the math is the same language always.
    And to use the arc dimension i use forumli to calculate the circle segment and then use it in the rest of the design of the involute . The 0,14Radians is a 100 mm arc .... and to get the 0.14 i first calculated what is the angle for the given circle diameter then doing it backwards in alibre ...

    But i digress and mess - it's great to have the ability to use math , and formula but its just irritable to constantly think about what dimension is where and what unit is where.... and i know that radians times the half the diameter is the arc dimension... but it's a weak point as the accuracy of my model is dependent on my ability to not mess up this simple math formula or one character input ...and the numbers are not easy to check.

    Sorry Alibre world about this rant ... and i hope i was clear, as English is not my native tongue ...
    Everything is possible with alibre just some imagination and understanding of simple math know how ;)

    P.S. I was looking into creating a alibre script for generating the "Cutting profile" for a involute gear ... so you can make single teeth of a gear .... but that is a project for some other day :D

    upload_2020-5-11_13-53-30.png
     
  14. albie0803

    albie0803 Alibre Super User

    Here is a script and part file to generate a true involute curve for module gears. Note: you can only run the script once otherwise it doesn't work, so close and reopen the file without saving until you get it right. Readme included.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Sturmer

    Sturmer Senior Member

    Wooow thank you! This is worth few beers! :O

    Thank you very much!
     

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