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Hole callouts in drawings

Discussion in 'Using Alibre Design' started by OrjanB, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. OrjanB

    OrjanB Member

    Hi,
    By using the holetool I can in one operation make a part with several equal holes.
    When coming to specifying the holes in a drawing I can use Hole Callout. Then one hole is marked and the number of holes with equal specs are shown. This is fine when all the holes are equal, but when I have several holes with nearly same dimensions in the same plate I would like to specify each hole. Is this possible?
    I understand that I can obtain this by using the hole tool for just one hole at a time, but this is not working effectivily in my opinion.
    Simple example enclosed.

    Regards
    Orjan

    upload_2020-12-27_13-59-10.png
     

    Attached Files:

  2. idslk

    idslk Alibre Super User

    Hello Orjan,

    how do you have created the "several holes with nearly same dimensions" in the 3D part???

    If you really want to, you can use a note, but be aware, you will lose the automatic connection to your part...
    Here a sample with 5 same holes in 3D, automatic number of holes in hole call out replaced manually and note added manually too...
    In my mind...not recommended.
    upload_2020-12-27_15-14-26.png

    Regards
    Stefan
     
  3. OrjanB

    OrjanB Member

    Stefan said:
    how do you have created the "several holes with nearly same dimensions" in the 3D part???

    Answer:
    The holes are created in 2 operations, using holetool twice on the same surface.

    I am aware of your solution, but as you say: not good.
    I would like an automatic connection to the part making changes in the part reflecting the drawing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  4. Lew_Merrick

    Lew_Merrick Guest

    Hi Orjan -- I am "more than somewhat out of date" with ISO rules, but here in the US "THRU" is the default condition for a Hole (threaded or not). Also (here in the US, at least) it would be "2X" for the number of Holes and not "4x." Also, you can create Reference Geometry in the Sketch defining the Hole positions to align & control the final Dimensions. -- Lew
     
  5. bigseb

    bigseb Alibre Super User

    I have this problem come up a lot too, mainly with ejector plates. And like IDSLK says you kinda have to do a lot manually as AD only allows you add a callout to one hole of that type. After that its down to either adding extra leaders (very messy) or manually creating callouts (time consuming).

    I think this has come up before over the years and showcases how programmers that write the software aren't always in touch with users that need to get the job done. (<-- not a problem unique to AD)
     
  6. HaroldL

    HaroldL Alibre Super User

    According to my latest copy of ASME Y14.5-2018:
    There may be a similar "rule" in the ISO standard as well.
    Marking Similar holes.png

    When I was using I-DEAS CAD where I retired from I wrote a macro that would search the drawing view and find all the holes that were the same size. It would then mark them with a letter, starting with "A" and each successive hole would get the next letter in sequence. I also had the option to create a Hole Table with each hole size, label and quantity.

    How difficult would it be for some ambitious programmer to write a script to do the same in Alibre.
     
  7. JST

    JST Alibre Super User

    And, presumably, the point of the comment is that the other holes are so nearly the same size that they do not show up clearly on the drawing as being different.

    Depending on the location of the 5.00mm holes, and the 5.125mm holes (for example), using arrows can just turn the drawing into a "lump of mashed potatoes" which is totally unclear and confusing.

    Letters, etc are fine, but suffer from the same issues as notes.

    Better the letters etc were part of the tool.
     
  8. bigseb

    bigseb Alibre Super User

    Yes you can use letters.

    BUT

    Make a change to the part and nothing updates. So then I have to go through the whole lot again.
     
  9. HaroldL

    HaroldL Alibre Super User

    It depends on what changes are made to the part. If the holes are not affected then there may not be anything to do with the labeling.

    Place your labels with Leaders Shown and attach the leader to the hole. Then turn off the leader display and the label will move with the hole (at least in the small test I just ran). If the hole size changes or is removed just edit the label or delete it.

    So you have to do some drawing maintenance, The running joke where I used to work was "That's why they call it "work".";)

    I still think a script could be written to place the labels. I'll post a request in the Script Request section and see if anyone takes up the challenge.
     
  10. idslk

    idslk Alibre Super User

    no scripting supported in drawing mode...:(
    Regards
    Stefan
     
  11. HaroldL

    HaroldL Alibre Super User

    That's too bad. Looks like there's room for improvement.
     
  12. idslk

    idslk Alibre Super User

    Would it be helpful to generate a table of holes saved from a script running inside the part?
    It could contain labels, hole names and other informations from part and feature level written to a known table file format, which can be manually placed to a drawing...

    Regards
    Stefan
     
  13. Lew_Merrick

    Lew_Merrick Guest

    Hi Harold -- It is ASME Y14.100 now (and has been since 2010). -- Lew
     
  14. bigseb

    bigseb Alibre Super User

    In my experience drawings in AD are a real mixed bag. Updating a drawing has often completely ruined any dimensions and annotations.
     
    JST likes this.
  15. bigseb

    bigseb Alibre Super User

    Yes. Although I'd argue tofix this on the drawing level and allow for more options (and stability) and not a another scripting solution.
     
  16. HaroldL

    HaroldL Alibre Super User

    Yeah, you always bring that up, likely because "the corner of the universe" that you work in, you use and rely on Y14.100. But may I point out, again, that ASME Y14.100 specifies that ASME Y14.5 shall be used for dimensioning and tolerancing. So, even if you note on your drawings to interpret per the Y14.100 standard you still need to follow Y14.5 which is why I always refer to Y14.5 as the Dimensioning Standard.

    From ASME Y14.100-2017:
    ASMEdimstandard.png

    Now if it is noted on the drawings to interpret per ASME Y14.100 then ALL the other drawing standards that Y14.100 refers to as "shall be accordance with" must be adhered to as well. Although I can see it is easier to note adherence to Y14.100 in the drawing notes rather than list all the other standards. (And I stopped counting at 25.)
     
  17. OrjanB

    OrjanB Member

    Hi all,

    The more theoretical discussion of standards the more complicated solutions appears in the forum.

    When coming to dimensioning in the practical world there will always be room for individual ways of doing it depending of placement, variety and number of holes.

    In my opinion the best approach for Alibre would be to remove the automatic marking of one hole stating number of holes, and instead make it possible to choose which holes to be marked, and eventually adding text/labels according to personal preferences.

    But important: The connection to the 3D-part must be maintained ensuring changes in the original design to appear in the drawing.

    Regards
    Orjan
     
    simonb65 and bigseb like this.
  18. HaroldL

    HaroldL Alibre Super User

    I don't consider discussion of Standards to be theoretical. They are written to help clarify those complicated situations by giving some direction and consistency when creating drawings. Some companies/people use them as written or as a starting point to develop their own standards. It may be that someone creating a drawing of a widget that he/she is making for their hobby likely isn't concerned about standards but anyone working for a business and creating drawings for hire should be.

    Your original question was related to marking all holes of the same size, I merely pointed out what the ASME standard was and noted that ISO likely had something similar. If your drawing won't be used by anyone but you then it probably doesn't matter how you label the holes, but if you are creating drawings for a customer or your place of work then some standard is likely required.
     
  19. OrjanB

    OrjanB Member

    Harold:
    I of course agree with you concerning benefits of standards for professional use were avoiding misunderstanding is important.

    My concern for starting this thread was that Alibres approach for marking different holes with nearly same visual impression on same surface is preventing me from making, in an easy way, a well specified drawing for any craftsman - professional or hobbyist. As discussed, it can be done, but not as convenient as it should or could be.
    Orjan.
     
  20. HaroldL

    HaroldL Alibre Super User

    OrjanB , Noted, and IF Alibre would/could add script capability to drawings then it may be possible for an easy solution to be scripted for marking holes. Until then it is a manual operation.
     

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